I'm compiling a list of recent articles on Mormon gays. Quite a few really.
Evan Clayson
Mitch Mayne
Joanna Brooks comments on Mitch Mayne.
There's more I'm sure. But this is what I found this week.
Wednesday, August 31, 2011
Saturday, August 20, 2011
Wednesday, August 3, 2011
Ex gay Therapy
This is the latest trend in "ungaying" people. Touch therapy to cuddle the gay away.
The article is here.
The article is here.
Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Saturday, July 23, 2011
Old Journal 1
I wrote this post a few months ago. But I'd like to put it out there.
Lately I've been coming out to my friends and family. I wanted to talk a little bit about what that's actually like, invite your comments on it, and give you my perspective on it.
Coming out at school has been a wonderful experience. One person I told gave me a big hug and said, "I'm so happy for you!" That was not the reaction I expected. It took me aback, but it really made me feel good. I should be happy about being gay, about living my life more authentically. Other friends are very supportive and understanding. Only one person at all has said, "well you know, I used to be an alcoholic." Oh brother. It's not the same thing. But even then, he was pretty nice about the whole thing. My gay friend is the first person I told, and he had no idea. I guess I'm good at being "straight-acting" at least in public. I think that being the married Mormon guy I kind of jammed people's gaydar a bit.
Why do it? Why come out at all? I think there are a lot of reasons, but for me, even just coming out to myself and a few people, I was able to connect with these people better. Before I lived in fear of them discovering my secret, but then when I told them I was able to relate to them better. It's been an incredible thing. If I may be so bold, I believe not just telling them but coming out has made me a more compassionate, loving, patient person. I see so much good coming from being true to myself, and just have to say, to me that let's me know I'm on the right path.
This applies mostly to Mormon family and friends too, but with family and some friends, it's more complicated.
My story is different than most. I came out to my bishop, parents, my two brothers, a few friends, some teachers at school when I was 17 years old. I didn't have any major declarations or anything, but I did snuggle with my boyfriend on a choir tour, in public. So as I tell people, how many of them already know? Some but not all. A few comments are, "I know you struggled with this in High School, but I didn't know this was still a problem for you." Other people had no idea, even though they have been my friends for years. One friend however, who has known me since third grade said, "Ya, I knew that. I just didn't want to say anything to you."
When I turned 18 I chose to go back in the closet. Not only that, I tried therapy with lds therapists to try to become more heterosexual and read a number of books on how to cure myself of homosexuality. I became affiliated with Evergreen and went to their conference, read their website, got their manual. I began to see myself as having same-sex attraction rather than being gay.
A few people, including my parents and siblings, and a few friends know about this process. I told my mission president, bishops, I may have even told a mission companion. And so for a lot of them, considering that I did end up married, probably just concluded it worked. Other family members who are more progressive and don't believe in something like that (and probably didn't know the details) just thought, well he's bisexual I guess.
So my experience coming out for a 2nd time has been I'm sure different than most. It's hard to deal with this and getting divorced, but at least to my family, I want to tell them the reasons rather than lying to them
What has it been like? Well there are sort of two main different groups in my family. One are the what I'll call liberal Mormons. My sister in law, some of my extended family. They are so supportive. They are all really close to my wife, so it's hard for them in that way, but on the other hand they are totally behind me.
And then there's the other part of the family. They are super conservative and/or super orthodox. It's been very difficult. My Mom didn't take my bring gay very well when I was 17. At the time she told me I'd get AIDS and die, I'd never be happy, I'd "break her heart into a million pieces." She told me at one point that she had thought about killing herself after she found out. Ouch. So she didn't take it very well at 27 either. My Dad at 17 told me some of those things, and then tried to find a cure for me. Nowadays he's stopped that but he spouts off at me common stereotypes about homosexual relationships and tells me that he worries I'll never be happy. He tells me that while getting divorced is the best thing for my wife, it isn't for me. He doesn't want me to be lonely. He doesn't believe that monogamy exists in the gay community. He told me I could never bring a partner home, because he didn't want to explain it to my brothers and sisters. My Mom starts crying whenever I bring up anything about possibly being in a relationship with a man someday. She is terrified that I'll cut off contact with them. She tells me that I'll incur the wrath of God.
All this was terribly difficult at first. I'm building some resilience though. I know that I'm good with God, but it is hard for people to assume you are just leaving the path of salvation to rebel or something and to misjudge you.
I read a pamphlet for PFLAG. It's easy to get mad at my parents, frustrated. I am sometimes, and I think that's normal. In some ways, I think I have every right to. But I also try to understand them. They are in mourning. With my getting divorced and not having grandchildren, they are mourning the loss of who they thought I was.
My parents told my grandparents, and I've only talked to my Grandpa once. It started off well. He told me he loved me and accepted me no matter what I chose. He told me he was shocked at first. But then as I used the g word, things got a little more hectic. He asked if I was really gay or just gay in my mind. He told that God made me to be a husband and father.
Then there's my siblings. I have told 5 of 8. My brother (who is married to the liberal Mormon) has been fantastic. More understanding than I would have possibly imagined. The next one down has been a self righteous...I guess I won't swear. I had to stop talking to him for a while, because he just says the stupidest most uninformed things. My favorite was "if you read the book of Mormon every day, you won't struggle with your same sex attraction as much." I guess there's a hint of truth there. I'll be happier that I'm gay if I read the book of Mormon? Idk. There was talk in the blogosphere about boundaries a few weeks ago, he crossed all kinds of them. I've since told him he can't do that and been a lot firmer about that.
Then there are the rest of my siblings. They've been great. I don't know how or when to tell my 14 year old brother, or my 12 year old sister, or my 10 year old brother. My Mom asked me not to. But I feel like with my getting divorced, they need to know what's going on. They need to know why the ex won't be coming around for Christmas and holidays.
My family is getting to a point where they are fine with me being gay. Except for a few who are completely accepting and supportive, they aren't ok with me "acting on my feelings." It makes them upset to even think about it. So I don't know how I'll resolve that one, but I just have to live my life according to what I know to be best. It's going to be a long road ahead.
I've told a few of my cousins. The progressive wing of the family is great with this. But on the conservative side, one of them told me not to believe the lie from Satan that I can't change. I kind of was ambushed because I didn't call her to tell her, she heard I was having marital problems and wanted to know what was up. I wanted to tell her, but in hindsight, it would have been ok to wait til I was more ready.
Then there are my other Mormon friends. Well and my ex-mormon friends. The ex crowd and the non orthodox crowd is very understanding, sympathetic. For many of them, Prop 8 was the straw that broke the camels back that caused them to leave the church, so they are sympathetic and supportive. My Mormon friends are for the most part understanding. They have a hard time that I would question prophets and apostles and even think about leaving the church. They plead with me to stay. And while I'm fairly honest with them, I don't always say everything I'm thinking because I'm really just happy that they don't reject me, that they want our friendship to continue. But it's going to be different. The image they had of me is not the same as the reality of me. I suppose it never is, but this is something that's going to be hard for me and them for a while.
So what is coming out like? It's not a magic everything will be wonderful type thing. Sometimes it is. I think people should take their time with it. I firmly believe that no one should out anybody else. With some people, it's the greatest thing I've ever done. To finally share part of myself that I have hidden away and denied.
But it's stressful. Usually I feel better after telling someone, but not always. And I wish that my experience with my parents and grandparents were different. I read this pamphlet from PFLAG called "before coming out to your parents." Of course this was after the fact. I think that happens a lot. It basically says take your time and think about the best way to tell them. I recommend it to anyone.
With my Mormon friends and family, coming out has usually been difficult. It's made me upset at times. I wish sometimes that I hadn't had to get divorced and come out at about the same time. But I think in the end it will be worth it.
There are still more people to tell. And there's a lot more conversations to be had with the people I have told. But I'm learning to not take it when what they say is bigoted and wrong. I have to be an example and a light to them. It's not easy. It's hard to take something as complex as this and explain it to someone. But I'll go forward. As they say it gets better.
Lately I've been coming out to my friends and family. I wanted to talk a little bit about what that's actually like, invite your comments on it, and give you my perspective on it.
Coming out at school has been a wonderful experience. One person I told gave me a big hug and said, "I'm so happy for you!" That was not the reaction I expected. It took me aback, but it really made me feel good. I should be happy about being gay, about living my life more authentically. Other friends are very supportive and understanding. Only one person at all has said, "well you know, I used to be an alcoholic." Oh brother. It's not the same thing. But even then, he was pretty nice about the whole thing. My gay friend is the first person I told, and he had no idea. I guess I'm good at being "straight-acting" at least in public. I think that being the married Mormon guy I kind of jammed people's gaydar a bit.
Why do it? Why come out at all? I think there are a lot of reasons, but for me, even just coming out to myself and a few people, I was able to connect with these people better. Before I lived in fear of them discovering my secret, but then when I told them I was able to relate to them better. It's been an incredible thing. If I may be so bold, I believe not just telling them but coming out has made me a more compassionate, loving, patient person. I see so much good coming from being true to myself, and just have to say, to me that let's me know I'm on the right path.
This applies mostly to Mormon family and friends too, but with family and some friends, it's more complicated.
My story is different than most. I came out to my bishop, parents, my two brothers, a few friends, some teachers at school when I was 17 years old. I didn't have any major declarations or anything, but I did snuggle with my boyfriend on a choir tour, in public. So as I tell people, how many of them already know? Some but not all. A few comments are, "I know you struggled with this in High School, but I didn't know this was still a problem for you." Other people had no idea, even though they have been my friends for years. One friend however, who has known me since third grade said, "Ya, I knew that. I just didn't want to say anything to you."
When I turned 18 I chose to go back in the closet. Not only that, I tried therapy with lds therapists to try to become more heterosexual and read a number of books on how to cure myself of homosexuality. I became affiliated with Evergreen and went to their conference, read their website, got their manual. I began to see myself as having same-sex attraction rather than being gay.
A few people, including my parents and siblings, and a few friends know about this process. I told my mission president, bishops, I may have even told a mission companion. And so for a lot of them, considering that I did end up married, probably just concluded it worked. Other family members who are more progressive and don't believe in something like that (and probably didn't know the details) just thought, well he's bisexual I guess.
So my experience coming out for a 2nd time has been I'm sure different than most. It's hard to deal with this and getting divorced, but at least to my family, I want to tell them the reasons rather than lying to them
What has it been like? Well there are sort of two main different groups in my family. One are the what I'll call liberal Mormons. My sister in law, some of my extended family. They are so supportive. They are all really close to my wife, so it's hard for them in that way, but on the other hand they are totally behind me.
And then there's the other part of the family. They are super conservative and/or super orthodox. It's been very difficult. My Mom didn't take my bring gay very well when I was 17. At the time she told me I'd get AIDS and die, I'd never be happy, I'd "break her heart into a million pieces." She told me at one point that she had thought about killing herself after she found out. Ouch. So she didn't take it very well at 27 either. My Dad at 17 told me some of those things, and then tried to find a cure for me. Nowadays he's stopped that but he spouts off at me common stereotypes about homosexual relationships and tells me that he worries I'll never be happy. He tells me that while getting divorced is the best thing for my wife, it isn't for me. He doesn't want me to be lonely. He doesn't believe that monogamy exists in the gay community. He told me I could never bring a partner home, because he didn't want to explain it to my brothers and sisters. My Mom starts crying whenever I bring up anything about possibly being in a relationship with a man someday. She is terrified that I'll cut off contact with them. She tells me that I'll incur the wrath of God.
All this was terribly difficult at first. I'm building some resilience though. I know that I'm good with God, but it is hard for people to assume you are just leaving the path of salvation to rebel or something and to misjudge you.
I read a pamphlet for PFLAG. It's easy to get mad at my parents, frustrated. I am sometimes, and I think that's normal. In some ways, I think I have every right to. But I also try to understand them. They are in mourning. With my getting divorced and not having grandchildren, they are mourning the loss of who they thought I was.
My parents told my grandparents, and I've only talked to my Grandpa once. It started off well. He told me he loved me and accepted me no matter what I chose. He told me he was shocked at first. But then as I used the g word, things got a little more hectic. He asked if I was really gay or just gay in my mind. He told that God made me to be a husband and father.
Then there's my siblings. I have told 5 of 8. My brother (who is married to the liberal Mormon) has been fantastic. More understanding than I would have possibly imagined. The next one down has been a self righteous...I guess I won't swear. I had to stop talking to him for a while, because he just says the stupidest most uninformed things. My favorite was "if you read the book of Mormon every day, you won't struggle with your same sex attraction as much." I guess there's a hint of truth there. I'll be happier that I'm gay if I read the book of Mormon? Idk. There was talk in the blogosphere about boundaries a few weeks ago, he crossed all kinds of them. I've since told him he can't do that and been a lot firmer about that.
Then there are the rest of my siblings. They've been great. I don't know how or when to tell my 14 year old brother, or my 12 year old sister, or my 10 year old brother. My Mom asked me not to. But I feel like with my getting divorced, they need to know what's going on. They need to know why the ex won't be coming around for Christmas and holidays.
My family is getting to a point where they are fine with me being gay. Except for a few who are completely accepting and supportive, they aren't ok with me "acting on my feelings." It makes them upset to even think about it. So I don't know how I'll resolve that one, but I just have to live my life according to what I know to be best. It's going to be a long road ahead.
I've told a few of my cousins. The progressive wing of the family is great with this. But on the conservative side, one of them told me not to believe the lie from Satan that I can't change. I kind of was ambushed because I didn't call her to tell her, she heard I was having marital problems and wanted to know what was up. I wanted to tell her, but in hindsight, it would have been ok to wait til I was more ready.
Then there are my other Mormon friends. Well and my ex-mormon friends. The ex crowd and the non orthodox crowd is very understanding, sympathetic. For many of them, Prop 8 was the straw that broke the camels back that caused them to leave the church, so they are sympathetic and supportive. My Mormon friends are for the most part understanding. They have a hard time that I would question prophets and apostles and even think about leaving the church. They plead with me to stay. And while I'm fairly honest with them, I don't always say everything I'm thinking because I'm really just happy that they don't reject me, that they want our friendship to continue. But it's going to be different. The image they had of me is not the same as the reality of me. I suppose it never is, but this is something that's going to be hard for me and them for a while.
So what is coming out like? It's not a magic everything will be wonderful type thing. Sometimes it is. I think people should take their time with it. I firmly believe that no one should out anybody else. With some people, it's the greatest thing I've ever done. To finally share part of myself that I have hidden away and denied.
But it's stressful. Usually I feel better after telling someone, but not always. And I wish that my experience with my parents and grandparents were different. I read this pamphlet from PFLAG called "before coming out to your parents." Of course this was after the fact. I think that happens a lot. It basically says take your time and think about the best way to tell them. I recommend it to anyone.
With my Mormon friends and family, coming out has usually been difficult. It's made me upset at times. I wish sometimes that I hadn't had to get divorced and come out at about the same time. But I think in the end it will be worth it.
There are still more people to tell. And there's a lot more conversations to be had with the people I have told. But I'm learning to not take it when what they say is bigoted and wrong. I have to be an example and a light to them. It's not easy. It's hard to take something as complex as this and explain it to someone. But I'll go forward. As they say it gets better.
Friday, July 22, 2011
Sunday, April 10, 2011
First Date
About me. I'm a gay man who was married and was Mormon. This blog will chronicle my adventures in coming out and being out.
First Date
Last Friday I went on my first date with a guy since being out. For the purposes of this blog, we shall refer to him as R. R is from Mexico, speaks Spanish but also English, loves Radiohead. But let's get into the more interesting details.
Meeting someone for the first time after only talking online is quite interesting. I guess I wasn't quite prepared for the experience, but it was different to talk to someone on e-mail and see a picture than to actually meet them face to face. At first, I was unsure of what to think. But then as I got to know him, hear him talk, see how he thinks I much prefer the real R to whatever image I had of him before.
So we met for coffee. Why does the Mormon boy go on his first date with a guy to a coffee shop? I had no clue what to order. So, trying to sort of break the ice I said that I didn't know what to get, I'd never had coffee. He bought me a bottled water instead! He usually gets a certain kind, but I was going to get Chai, so he ended up ordering it and let me try some. (I bet about half of you are more concerned that I tried tea than that I'm on a date with a guy...aren't we a funny bunch?)
We talked at the table, and then on the couch. Sitting on a couch, as two men meeting for a date (me for the first time) is somewhat awkward. We certainly kept our distance! There was some shifting, some wanting to be closer but not knowing if we should.
But overall the conversation was good.
I would say it was fantastic. With a few caveats.
The context of the meeting was me telling R that I was getting divorced. So in the process of trying to explain that on a first date, I'd have to say given those parameters it was fine. But typically not first date stuff.
But you know what? I'm kind of sick and tired of hard fast rules. Like do this do that, say this not that. I don't mind having a guideline, but really we're pioneers, blazing a trail.
Then things settled into a more typical pattern of a first date. We talked about going to concerts, about bands we love, movies we liked. We stopped at 2 hours so he could go (which was good, I had plans) and voila.
We also talked about his past relationships some, and his coming out experience. Hey I just did it, so back off! WE talked about what we wanted, that we are both more the have kids someday married type guys. Boy. Y'all better vote gay marriage in, or Imma get pissed. Or move to Massachusetts. Or Iowa.
He texted me that he had fun meeting up and that I'm an awesome guy. I didnt' get it til the next day cause my memory was full! Pathetic me, I checked my e-mail at my friends house, hoping I'd get a message. Then today I sent him a message even though I hadn't read his. So then I texted him again, and then called him.
I'm making a fuss over nothing. But this was my first date, so I guess a little fuss is alright.
What else can I tell you about R? Tons. But inspite of my awkwardness here and there, it felt completely and totally natural. Like something that I should have done a long time ago and not be afraid of.
What I could do better. 1) Given my style I tend to jump around the conversation. We would typically have to come back to things. This is something I'm just noticing about myself, my interrupting. I should knock that back abit. It's ok to be a little all over the place, but probably better for the other person if I keep it in check.
2) Calling. Cell phones are bad. It's hard to know when to call, my goodness. But he or I should call each other back soon.
3) There was no kiss at the end. Probably best on a first date, but part of me wishes that yes I had gone there. He did mention coffee breath and give me gum though. He gave me a hug at the end.
We drove there separately, so I walked him out but not to his car. Slightly awkward.
So still, I am slightly awkward.
But I had an important epiphany today. I want to be Mr. Perfect and find Mr. Perfect. But even though I'm separated, even though I'm totally new to this, even though I'm slightly out of shape spiritually, physically, and emotionally, I can date as who I am. I don't need to let it all out all the time, but it is ok to date as an imperfect person, as a person in process. That's how we learn a grow.
Some of you are judgmental. Admit it. That's ok. I tend to judge myself pretty hard. Part of me wonders if I should have waited longer before doing this. Part of me wished that I didn't have to start things while I was in such a flux.
But you know. Most of me is just really really really happy. And wondering what the next move is.
My overall message is that people say all the time that gay dating is no different than straight dating. That may be true, but you know, I've only been part of mormon dating. And for the first time, I was attracted to the person sitting across from me, wondering and thinking about kissing in a way that wasn't a do I have to and how do I do this so she knows I like her. I like going out with people I am actually attracted to. It feels good. And natural and right.
Oh and he's cute. And I like him.
The difference I would say is that because you are two men, there are social norms and protocols to dating that just aren't as hard and fast. What I did was commit several faux paus talking about past relationships, etc. But you know what? I don't care. If I'm going to do this as me, I'm going to damn well enjoy myself and not be limited by someone's narrow conception of how things should be, or some game, or things like that.
Ok now the complication. My future ex-wife (we are not divorced finally in CA, it takes 6 months) is coming back this week sometime. I'm moving partly on Monday, but I wanted to sort of be here and around here while she is. But she'll basically be here two weeks. I can't just move though, I have to pack and clean anyway.
But what do I do if R calls and wants to do something? I've explained the situation for the most part, but I just want to know what to do and say while the future ex-wife is here. To the both.
Yes this is why I should have waited.
Yes our relationship is weird; she knows I met up with this guy. I haven't told her anything, and I probably won't. But it could get awkward.
Questions for fellow daters, bloggers.
So let's say I invite R to go eat somewhere. I pay then right? Or how does that work? Do you usually go dutch on dates? Who pays?
Who walks whom to whos car? Or door? Or drives? See dating isn't quite the same with two men now, is it?
Who calls who for the next step? Does it matter? I'm the more "straight acting" one, but then again, I just came out. And I just don't know if that matters in terms of all these things.
We can complain all we want about gender norms, but seriously, they have their place. But it's not so simple as one of us is the man in the relationship, one is the woman. I guess we could adopt that pattern, but I feel like I rather prefer blazing my own.
Again I feel Um I have a ton of other questions, but none of them are first date related. This feels a little like a teenage girl blog, but whatever.
First Date
Last Friday I went on my first date with a guy since being out. For the purposes of this blog, we shall refer to him as R. R is from Mexico, speaks Spanish but also English, loves Radiohead. But let's get into the more interesting details.
Meeting someone for the first time after only talking online is quite interesting. I guess I wasn't quite prepared for the experience, but it was different to talk to someone on e-mail and see a picture than to actually meet them face to face. At first, I was unsure of what to think. But then as I got to know him, hear him talk, see how he thinks I much prefer the real R to whatever image I had of him before.
So we met for coffee. Why does the Mormon boy go on his first date with a guy to a coffee shop? I had no clue what to order. So, trying to sort of break the ice I said that I didn't know what to get, I'd never had coffee. He bought me a bottled water instead! He usually gets a certain kind, but I was going to get Chai, so he ended up ordering it and let me try some. (I bet about half of you are more concerned that I tried tea than that I'm on a date with a guy...aren't we a funny bunch?)
We talked at the table, and then on the couch. Sitting on a couch, as two men meeting for a date (me for the first time) is somewhat awkward. We certainly kept our distance! There was some shifting, some wanting to be closer but not knowing if we should.
But overall the conversation was good.
I would say it was fantastic. With a few caveats.
The context of the meeting was me telling R that I was getting divorced. So in the process of trying to explain that on a first date, I'd have to say given those parameters it was fine. But typically not first date stuff.
But you know what? I'm kind of sick and tired of hard fast rules. Like do this do that, say this not that. I don't mind having a guideline, but really we're pioneers, blazing a trail.
Then things settled into a more typical pattern of a first date. We talked about going to concerts, about bands we love, movies we liked. We stopped at 2 hours so he could go (which was good, I had plans) and voila.
We also talked about his past relationships some, and his coming out experience. Hey I just did it, so back off! WE talked about what we wanted, that we are both more the have kids someday married type guys. Boy. Y'all better vote gay marriage in, or Imma get pissed. Or move to Massachusetts. Or Iowa.
He texted me that he had fun meeting up and that I'm an awesome guy. I didnt' get it til the next day cause my memory was full! Pathetic me, I checked my e-mail at my friends house, hoping I'd get a message. Then today I sent him a message even though I hadn't read his. So then I texted him again, and then called him.
I'm making a fuss over nothing. But this was my first date, so I guess a little fuss is alright.
What else can I tell you about R? Tons. But inspite of my awkwardness here and there, it felt completely and totally natural. Like something that I should have done a long time ago and not be afraid of.
What I could do better. 1) Given my style I tend to jump around the conversation. We would typically have to come back to things. This is something I'm just noticing about myself, my interrupting. I should knock that back abit. It's ok to be a little all over the place, but probably better for the other person if I keep it in check.
2) Calling. Cell phones are bad. It's hard to know when to call, my goodness. But he or I should call each other back soon.
3) There was no kiss at the end. Probably best on a first date, but part of me wishes that yes I had gone there. He did mention coffee breath and give me gum though. He gave me a hug at the end.
We drove there separately, so I walked him out but not to his car. Slightly awkward.
So still, I am slightly awkward.
But I had an important epiphany today. I want to be Mr. Perfect and find Mr. Perfect. But even though I'm separated, even though I'm totally new to this, even though I'm slightly out of shape spiritually, physically, and emotionally, I can date as who I am. I don't need to let it all out all the time, but it is ok to date as an imperfect person, as a person in process. That's how we learn a grow.
Some of you are judgmental. Admit it. That's ok. I tend to judge myself pretty hard. Part of me wonders if I should have waited longer before doing this. Part of me wished that I didn't have to start things while I was in such a flux.
But you know. Most of me is just really really really happy. And wondering what the next move is.
My overall message is that people say all the time that gay dating is no different than straight dating. That may be true, but you know, I've only been part of mormon dating. And for the first time, I was attracted to the person sitting across from me, wondering and thinking about kissing in a way that wasn't a do I have to and how do I do this so she knows I like her. I like going out with people I am actually attracted to. It feels good. And natural and right.
Oh and he's cute. And I like him.
The difference I would say is that because you are two men, there are social norms and protocols to dating that just aren't as hard and fast. What I did was commit several faux paus talking about past relationships, etc. But you know what? I don't care. If I'm going to do this as me, I'm going to damn well enjoy myself and not be limited by someone's narrow conception of how things should be, or some game, or things like that.
Ok now the complication. My future ex-wife (we are not divorced finally in CA, it takes 6 months) is coming back this week sometime. I'm moving partly on Monday, but I wanted to sort of be here and around here while she is. But she'll basically be here two weeks. I can't just move though, I have to pack and clean anyway.
But what do I do if R calls and wants to do something? I've explained the situation for the most part, but I just want to know what to do and say while the future ex-wife is here. To the both.
Yes this is why I should have waited.
Yes our relationship is weird; she knows I met up with this guy. I haven't told her anything, and I probably won't. But it could get awkward.
Questions for fellow daters, bloggers.
So let's say I invite R to go eat somewhere. I pay then right? Or how does that work? Do you usually go dutch on dates? Who pays?
Who walks whom to whos car? Or door? Or drives? See dating isn't quite the same with two men now, is it?
Who calls who for the next step? Does it matter? I'm the more "straight acting" one, but then again, I just came out. And I just don't know if that matters in terms of all these things.
We can complain all we want about gender norms, but seriously, they have their place. But it's not so simple as one of us is the man in the relationship, one is the woman. I guess we could adopt that pattern, but I feel like I rather prefer blazing my own.
Again I feel Um I have a ton of other questions, but none of them are first date related. This feels a little like a teenage girl blog, but whatever.
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